Episode 14: Aw Shucks: Why We Hate Positive Feedback

    



Why is it that we find it so hard to accept positive feedback, choosing instead to deflect or make ourselves small? How might we be different if we instead learnt to accept and embrace the praise and encouragement we receive (as well as the inevitable constructive comments too!)? Tune in as Kris and Hannah dive into the topic, share their personal stories about receiving positive and negative feedback, and problem solve using their favourite tool - RHYTHMS!


Links + resources from this episode:

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This transcript was generated automatically and may not be 100 percent accurate.

Episode transcript:

00:00:00 Hannah 

Welcome to The Rhythms podcast. My name is Hannah. 


00:00:03 Kris 

And my name's. 


00:00:04 Kris 

Kris, this is a podcast about exploring the rhythms, patterns and habits that bring joy and add richness to our everyday lives. 


00:00:12 Hannah 

From daily habits to embracing the changing seasons, it's not about mindless routines, but patterns with purpose. It's about making something special out of something. 


00:00:24 Kris 

If you're someone who wants to move beyond just being more efficient or productive and instead find ways to infuse your days with small, familiar moments that matter, then you've found two new friends with the same goal. 


00:00:37 Hannah 

Every episode listen in as we share a reflection on the role of rhythms in our. 


00:00:42 Hannah 

Lives join our conversation as we unpack this idea further and then spend a moment with us considering how that rhythm could shape or add richness to our lives today. 


00:00:55 Kris 

This is episode 14 are shocks. Why we hate positive feedback. 


00:01:04 Kris 

I think we've trained ourselves to deflect positive feedback as skillfully as the Williams Sisters return a serve in tennis. 


00:01:13 Kris 

Like the sisters. 


00:01:14 Kris 

We've been training for it our whole lives. 


00:01:17 Kris 

Here's how I think that happens. 


00:01:21 Kris 

We've got an. 


00:01:22 Kris 

Interesting team in this part of the world. Tall poppy syndrome. It's not a botanical term, but a social one. 


00:01:30 Kris 

You're doing well achieving your goals, maybe even sharing your successes with others. But instead of applause and cheers, you start getting criticised. Why? Well, because your peers think you're rising too far above your station. Or maybe you're just bragging a bit too much. 


00:01:50 Kris 

That's tall poppy syndrome. 


00:01:53 Kris 

And it's not just us in Japan, there's a similar saying. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down in the Netherlands, they say don't put your head above ground level. 


00:02:04 Kris 

Wherever you go. 


00:02:05 Kris 

There's going to be a contingent of people ready to chop you back down to size. 


00:02:13 Kris 

So is it any? 


00:02:14 Kris 

Wonder a lot of our default response to a piece of positive feedback is either to minimise the achievement or diminish its impact. We might not want to stick our heads up too. 


00:02:25 Kris 

Far be too visible, make ourselves too vulnerable if it means getting hurt. 


00:02:33 Kris 

In the last few years, I've really come to appreciate the nuances of feedback, how to receive it, give it and process it properly. I genuinely believe that developing rhythms around how to deal with what others have to say about us pays massive. 


00:02:52 Kris 

Dividends in our growth as people. 


00:02:55 Kris 

As I've been processing some of the tools and ideas I've tried to use to make the most out of feedback, here are a few which I think could be really helpful for you to think about. 


00:03:06 Kris 

Firstly, receiving feedback taps into our instinct to self preserve. 


00:03:14 Kris 

Feedback of any kind, but especially to do with something we've created, worked on, invested in or are proud of, taps into our inward sense of self preservation. 


00:03:26 Kris 

It's natural to want to protect those things because deep down, we all carry insecurities about the things that are precious to us. These aren't always rational, but they are. 


00:03:39 Kris 

Still, I'm the first to admit that I carry doubts about my own abilities. I know these aren't rational. I know that I'm capable of doing certain things really well. So the idea that these insecurities could be brought to the surface is really confronting, especially if we're not in an emotional state. 


00:04:00 Kris 

Deal with what that brings so we minimize feedback and not just the bad feedback. 


00:04:07 Kris 

So right off the bat we can use rhythms to enforce healthy ways of viewing our own abilities, like when we practice the skill, we reinforce the idea that we're getting better, even if it doesn't feel like it at the. 


00:04:20 Kris 

Time, secondly, we become safe with vertical thinking. 


00:04:28 Kris 

When we're younger, we develop thinking habits that make us feel safe and comfortable by sticking to what we know. 


00:04:36 Kris 

This means we often use filters and familiar methods to understand the world. This type of thinking is vertical. It means we only operate within the boundaries that we're used to, or that we've set for ourselves. 


00:04:52 Kris 

If we only ever think in certain ways, it's hard to change how we act when we get feedback from others that contradicts those established patterns. 


00:05:04 Kris 

That's why feedback can be so disruptive, especially if it comes from places we don't trust. Maybe this is an example of how a rhythm can be counterproductive when we get so used to doing things one way, we shield ourselves from reality. 


00:05:22 Kris 

Maybe the way that we're used to doing something isn't working as well as it should. This doesn't always have to be a world altering shift though. Feedback allows us to realign our rhythms to better take us to where we need to go. 


00:05:41 Kris 

Thirdly, pruners versus weed whackers. 


00:05:46 Kris 

I heard a phrase somewhere once that stuck with me. When you're looking to get feedback from people, you need to know which people are pruners and which people are weed wackers. What does that mean? Say you have an idea, but it's really fragile. It's more of a dream or a wondering. 


00:06:06 Kris 

Or a fancy or something that could. 


00:06:09 Kris 

If you take that to a person who's a weed whacker, they'll take that fragile shoot of an idea and tear it to pieces. They're the type that mercilessly pick apart an idea, dissecting it to the core and tearing out all the fragile little leaves. The idea. 


00:06:29 Kris 

Wasn't ready for them to have a go at it. 


00:06:33 Kris 

But let's say you have a really. 


00:06:35 Kris 

Well thought out. 


00:06:35 Kris 

Idea with lots of action points and a robust plan of attack. Taking that idea to. 


00:06:41 Kris 

A pointer won't get. 


00:06:42 Kris 

You the most effective output because they're thinking too gently, too small. 


00:06:49 Kris 

They won't offer you the cutthroat honesty that a weed whacker will. The proof against the floor and the plan knowing what type of person to seek feedback from is vital in order to make it effective and meaningful. 


00:07:05 Kris 

But can you see how choosing the wrong person to give you feedback can be devastating? I think it probably happens more than we think, so it's important to curate where and when in the process you seek feedback, particularly if it's within your control to do so. So. 


00:07:25 Kris 

Have you been shielding yourself from feedback by self preserving? 


00:07:30 Kris 

Are you safe with the comfortable patterns that haven't gotten you where you need to go? Which one are you? A pruner or a weed whacker? Whatever the answers to those questions, it's important to know that feedback is an inevitable part of being human. It helps us. 


00:07:51 Kris 

To help ourselves and others. 


00:07:54 Kris 

And much like a game of tennis, it's a back and forth, a rally to draw out the best in each participant. 


00:08:05 Hannah 

So is my opening bit going to be as funny the second time around? 


00:08:11 Kris 

What are you talking? 


00:08:12 Hannah 

About that. This is the second time we're recording this episode, because last night my computer stopped recording. 


00:08:19 Kris 

It finally happened. We joked about it with Ange when we had her on that we hadn't had that moment. 


00:08:24 Kris 

Yeah, the recording failed and we were just waiting for it, but I reckon I reckon it's a rite of passage for any good podcast to have a false start. 


00:08:34 Hannah 

OK. 


00:08:36 Hannah 

OK. That's anything I. 


00:08:39 Hannah 

Yes, yes, I'm going to say that as a recovering perfectionist, it was a little bit hard that I wasn't the perfect person. 


00:08:46 Hannah 

Noticed, as you know, I didn't realize until we'd finished the whole hour long conversation. 


00:08:52 Hannah 

That had stopped 2 minutes and but yes, thank you. I'll take that. We've now crossed that off our podcasting. 


00:08:59 Hannah 

Bucket list. Excellent. 


00:09:00 Kris 

I said to you. 


00:09:01 Kris 

Afterwards that you you haven't developed a healthy, well worn paranoia around audio stuff yet. 


00:09:09 Hannah 

I did feel before we before we. 


00:09:09 Kris 

But you're on your way. 


00:09:11 Hannah 

Started our call today. I was like triple checking everything. 


00:09:16 Hannah 

Yes. Yeah. So good to go now. Yeah. Let me tell you again, Chris, how much I enjoyed your reflection and how interesting of a topic this is for conversation, I think. 


00:09:28 Kris 

Ohh, thank you. Thank you. I I received that well. 


00:09:33 Hannah 

Yeah, this is me. Mock Applause, not mock, causing you. This is me. Imaginary applause. 


00:09:42 Kris 

Maybe when we switch to video format people. 


00:09:42 Hannah 

I don't know if that translates into audio. 


00:09:45 Kris 

Well, probably not, no. 


00:09:47 Kris 

But yeah, we're. 


00:09:48 Kris 

Talking about feedback and in particular positive feedback and why we are just so good at, like knocking it back, by the way, I exercised my sport metaphor like limit for this episode. 


00:10:02 Kris 

I think it's pretty good, though I had. 


00:10:04 Kris 

A really good image of like Serena and Venus. How? Like deftly they. 


00:10:08 Kris 

And knock back a serve. And I thought that is such a good image for how we reflect off any sort of positive complement. We've done it before, right? I can't be the. 


00:10:20 Hannah 

Only one for sure, and I think we do it as aggressively and expertly as the Williams sisters. 


00:10:28 Kris 

Yeah. Well, see, they've been training their whole lives for that, and I want to put it out there that we have subconsciously been training our whole lives. Some of us, lots of us. 


00:10:39 Kris 

To minimize positive feedback and that kind of thought, like most of the things when I'm sort of pondering or something, I sort of started pulling the threads out. I thought feedback is a really interesting and repeated thing that happens to us sometimes and and we do it as well. We give people feedback so. 


00:10:59 Kris 

That would be an interesting thing to talk about, in particular with, like, how our rhythms might influence how positive and negative feedback. 


00:11:06 Hannah 

Work so. OK. So like thinking about then like how we are trained or that we learned to do this like how do we learn this unfortunate thing of? 


00:11:17 Hannah 

Knocking off pushing back positive feedback, you know, like where does? 


00:11:20 Kris 

That come from, I don't know. I think it's like a self preservation thing, right? And sometimes it's easier to just retreat into something that's safe and not put ourselves out there. Maybe it exposes our. 


00:11:37 Kris 

Insecurities or our vulnerabilities cause cause a lot of the times. 


00:11:42 Kris 

Feedback can be positive, but can also be negative as. 


00:11:45 Kris 

Well, and especially when it's negative feedback because there is a difference, by the way between like negative feedback and like critical or constructive feedback. But you know when we get that negative feedback, it just it hits that nerve, maybe if it's something that we've created especially or something that we've invested heavily into having someone have a. 


00:12:07 Kris 

Almost like the perception of they're having a go at it, we get defensive. We get, we retreat and I think it's a culmination of thousands and hundreds of thousands of those moments in our lives that just train us subconsciously to minimize because when we minimize negative feedback. 


00:12:24 Kris 

We also can do the same for positive feedback. I think it just has a flow on effect. You know, we're sort of training ourselves to do that. And so I think that's a little bit of where it might start. It's the idea of self preservation is that we want to preserve the safety and the little cocoon of that. 


00:12:44 Kris 

Idea or that thing that we're really invested? 


00:12:46 Hannah 

In the thing I've talked on the podcast before about this like interior design course like online course thing I. 


00:12:53 Hannah 

Was part of and I've read the books from this woman as well. Michael Ann Smith. And she talks about creating homes where we love to have guests over. Like, it's easy to have guests over and be hospitable because that's what so many of us who are making a cozy home wand. But we can find it really difficult. And she tells stories about when you go to someone's home. 


00:13:14 Hannah 

And she's done this herself. Had guests over and you kind of end up apologising for your lovely home. Like Oh my God. I'm so sorry about the bathroom. We've been meaning to renovate it. Ohh, my gosh. The house is so untidy. Please excuse. 


00:13:28 Hannah 

Us and how that is not like that is the opposite of being hospitable, because, like probably the majority of people will look around and go, Oh my gosh, if you're apologizing and excusing this, I could never invite you to my house. And so you actually end up making them very uncomfortable, like oh. 


00:13:45 

I wouldn't be able to. 


00:13:46 Hannah 

Invite you or. Oh my gosh. Now I need to like. 


00:13:49 Hannah 

Really compliment this person so that they feel OK about their house. You know, like that's that like self preservation thing in action, right of like generally you do really like your home or aspects of it, but you kind of protect yourself by putting out the apology or the excuse before that person may or may not see it. 


00:14:09 Hannah 

So you've kind of gone. 


00:14:10 Hannah 

Like I know about the floors. 


00:14:11 Kris 

You're hedging your bets, eh? You're like, if they notice this, then I've got an excuse. Let me give you some positive feedback though. You guys have a lovely house. I've been there. 


00:14:20 

Thank you. 


00:14:21 Kris 

And you are like this is this is positive feedback, but you were so guilty of like. 


00:14:28 Kris 

Ohh it's a bit of. 


00:14:28 Kris 

A mess? Or I'm just. 


00:14:30 Kris 

I'm gonna dissuade you now. You know you don't have to apologise for. 


00:14:33 Kris 

Your house. It's actually very lovely. 


00:14:35 Hannah 

Thank you. I think I think what it is I I I also agree it's very lovely and I enjoy being in it. Thank you for your feedback. I think what it is is because I am like a maximizer. I also love critical and constructive feedback because I want to be able to maximize things and make them the best. And so that's the most helpful feedback. 


00:14:56 Hannah 

Feels like for me, but in reading your reflection, I'm realizing actually I really need to be able to. 


00:15:04 Hannah 

Ache and acknowledge and rest in the positive feedback as well, because I'm surrounded by very generous people who do give positive feedback and then also constructive feedback. I wouldn't be able to take all the critical feedback if I wasn't also receiving positive feedback. You know, like as helpful as it is and as much. 


00:15:23 Hannah 

As I love it. 


00:15:25 Hannah 

It would beat me down if I wasn't also hearing the positive. 


00:15:29 Kris 

Yeah, that's a total balancing act day because. 


00:15:32 Kris 

I think when you say maximizer, that's a reference to strength finders a so. So like making making the most of an A situation or a moment or trying to find the best possible outcome. I've been learning cause I think I I can't remember what my top strength is. I know maximize is not in it but I've been learning that. 


00:15:36 Hannah 

Yes. Sorry. Yes, thank you. 


00:15:53 Kris 

It's OK to have iterative victories. What I mean by that is that it's OK to take one step forward and claim that as a win rather than achieving the entire task. This, I've got a really big task at work or something. It's OK to actually. 


00:16:09 Kris 

Receive or give permission to yourself to appreciate and acknowledge the small steps towards that large task as complete in a way does that. 


00:16:19 Hannah 

Make sense? Yeah, totally. And I think again, that's like sparking an idea for me around the, like, positive feedback thing of I think I'm sometimes guilty of not giving. 


00:16:29 Hannah 

Positive feedback, as generously as I could, and it's making me think like you can praise people and give positive feedback to people for like, really little minor thing. 


00:16:39 Hannah 

Things you know. 


00:16:40 Kris 

Well, you think that they're mine? A little things. You never know how much of an impact that small word or a bit of encouragement is gonna be for that person. It could be life changing and you never know. You know, those moments where the little kid is by the gateway into the stadium and the sports person comes in and, like, sees them and signs their thing or gives them a book. 


00:17:00 Kris 

Something. It's like a little thing for that person, but like life changing for the the little kid. 


00:17:07 Hannah 

Yeah. So true. I think you said this at one point, Chris. Like it doesn't really cost you anything to give positive feedback. 


00:17:14 Kris 

No, no it doesn't. 


00:17:16 Hannah 

And so yeah, like we can just give it so generously and it doesn't even have to be a life changing moment, but. 


00:17:22 Hannah 

It's still gonna be a moment, maybe of loveliness, and we're aiming for familiar loveliness in our lives. But you know, this, like, lovely moment for who's receiving it, whether it's just the like on a photo and it doesn't have, you know, thinking about our Instagram feeds or whatever. You can make a photo. That's not the most amazing photo you've ever seen, you know. And it will still mean something to the person. 


00:17:43 Hannah 

On the other side, assuming it's a person and not artificial intelligence. 


00:17:48 Kris 

It's interesting how social media has changed that perception, though, because what was created as something to affirm something. So the like system, like a double tap on Instagram or a like button, has changed into this like weird cold solar symmetric it's like a dopamine. 


00:18:08 Kris 

Dispenser, rather than a affirmative sort of thing, I I find that they are. It's very ironic to me how damaging. 


00:18:16 Kris 

The that sort of positive feedback initially that positive feedback system has become Speaking of positive feedback. I think it's important though to have a a good balance, because if you're only ever receiving affirmation, positive feedback, you're missing out on half of the equation. 


00:18:36 Kris 

Cause I think there's a real space for constructive feedback in people's lives and I think if you're just deflecting off the constructive stuff because there is a difference between constructive and negative feedback, because negative feedback comes from a place. 


00:18:51 Kris 

Of I think tearing down like it's it's not, it's not in a sense that you want to make help the person do better or or feel better. It comes from a place of I'm maybe I'm insecure that this person's doing better than me or I'm jealous or I'm whatever insert yourself into the picture and how often I I'm sure I've done it. 


00:19:11 Kris 

Where I've given negative feedback because of something that's not altruistic like I'm not. I don't wanna help this person. I just wanna like tear them down. I don't wanna be that person. And I I hope I've never done that, but. 


00:19:25 Kris 

If I'm being honest with myself, I probably have. 


00:19:28 Hannah 

Yeah. I wonder if we do it sometimes when we're. 


00:19:30 Hannah 

Like, just not thinking about the other person, like when we're just like in our heads, you know, it's easy to. 


00:19:35 Hannah 

Not think well. 


00:19:36 Hannah 

How will this be helpful to this person? You know, like you're not thinking that through and also not thinking about what it's going to feel like to be on the other side of receiving it. 


00:19:45 Hannah 

Then it could be easy maybe to land more on the side of negative rather than constructive. 


00:19:50 Kris 

Well on the on. 


00:19:51 Kris 

The first part of this episode we talked about, and I I still can't remember who said it, but the wows in the. 


00:19:58 Hannah 

House. Yeah. So I love this wow versus howl response idea. 


00:20:04 Hannah 

Because I think we can have people around us who, when we share an idea, they are the wow people. 


00:20:11 Hannah 

And they their response is wow. And they like rest in the beauty of the idea and respect it and acknowledge it. And I think if I could pick, I would want to be a wow person, which doesn't mean that how's not. 


00:20:26 Hannah 

Going to follow but. 


00:20:28 Hannah 

The other thing you could be as a how person. And so when someone shares an idea. 


00:20:32 Hannah 

You just immediately rushed past. 


00:20:34 Hannah 

Anything like looking at the positives, the awesomeness of it, the incredible nature of it, and just immediately go to but well, how would that work? How would we afford that? How would we find people to do that? How? How, how, how, how? And of course we want to get to those questions of being able to work through logistics or whatever it is to unpack the idea and figure out how to. 


00:20:55 Hannah 

Implement it. 


00:20:56 Hannah 

But if we don't first do wow, we rush past that opportunity to respond with positive feedback and affirmation, which is I think, so important. I know you and I both love ideas and like if you just shoot down ideas which might be a little bit unrealistic or out-of-the-box. 


00:21:16 Hannah 

Then you're never going to get to the actual awesome, realistic good can pull it off slightly pushed us out of our comfort zone idea. 


00:21:23 Hannah 

You have to have the crazy ones and think, Oh my goodness, imagine wow, that would be so amazing. And then do then run through the house. But I think if you're someone who tends to rush past giving positive feedback, then you become a hell person. And if you are not very comfortable. 


00:21:24 Kris 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 


00:21:44 Hannah 

Natural at giving positive feedback. Maybe you also find it difficult to receive. 


00:21:49 Hannah 

It I don't know. 


00:21:50 Kris 

What do you think? I think so. I think so. I was just like kind. 


00:21:54 Kris 

Of wondering if I'm a wow or a how. Yeah and. 


00:22:00 Hannah 

Do you think it depends on who it is like? Whose idea? 


00:22:02 Kris 

It is, I think so. I think it really depends in the relationship there as well because in my analogy of the pruners and the weed whackers, the pruners are kind of like sorry my analogy is kind of like. 


00:22:14 Kris 

Step 2. In the process where. 


00:22:17 Kris 

The the the people who you take the idea to. But before you get to that, it's like you need that to pick the right person for the right part. So. 


00:22:27 Kris 

The wow person is like that. Wow, what a great idea. And they don't necessarily get into the weeds of it. They don't want to pick it apart. And that's the pruner. 


00:22:39 Kris 

Part, you know, they, they, they, they take the fragile part of the idea. Like the idea is like this fragile little seed little plant that hasn't got its shoots down yet. It's not like it hasn't got its roots down. And it's it's got little buds coming up and the prune is just going to shape that idea and help it to kind of move to its next phase of development. 


00:23:00 Kris 

And then. 


00:23:01 Kris 

The how people are like the weed whackers who win the ideas got a bit more robust. It's like a bit stronger and a bit more well established. They're the types of people who then can come in and really, like, mow the lawn around and and try and just like, beat this analogy into oblivion like they're the ones who then help it flourish. 


00:23:21 Kris 

And grow. 


00:23:22 Kris 

Exactly. So it's it's, I think a time dependent thing as well. So like picking the right person at the right time for an idea. 


00:23:31 Hannah 

And I also wonder though, like as people who might be responding to ideas, I think that we can probably choose to be a wow person or a how pruner or a how weed wacker as well, you know, like I think it's also one. 


00:23:47 Kris 

Yeah, you don't have. 


00:23:48 Kris 

To be one or the other. I think you can be. 


00:23:49 Kris 

Both and if you're, if you're developing a a rhythm of like being self aware and having like working on your EQ and like perception of people, you can tell when someone is bringing you an idea. That's like a little fragile seedling and like and they're just looking for that next little nudge or. 


00:24:03 Hannah 

For sure. 


00:24:09 Kris 

If they've got something really strong and they're looking for someone to like. 


00:24:13 Kris 

Pull it to pieces and put it back together with. 


00:24:15 Kris 

Them I think you. 


00:24:16 Hannah 

Can even ask as well, right? Like I've definitely had to do that with some people. Is going OK? What sort of feedback are you looking for from me? I remember I've like intentionally decided at some point I'm going to give this much feedback now and then I'm going to say the next day, like, oh, let me come back to let me go. 


00:24:33 Hannah 

You know, have another read of that or another. Look at it, whatever, and I'll come back to. 


00:24:36 Hannah 

You. But these are things I just right off. 


00:24:39 Hannah 

Top of my head, I love and and then they sort of like get some positive affirmation. 


00:24:45 Hannah 

And hear that because if we don't have a break for some people, some people can take it all at once. But if you don't have the gap between like the positive and the constructive or the critical, some people just can't hear the positive. I think I think I can. 


00:24:59 Hannah 

Be like that. 


00:25:00 Hannah 

Do you reckon? Yeah. I think that because, especially because I like critical feedback. 


00:25:05 Hannah 

I can just not hear the positive sometimes. 


00:25:08 Hannah 

Or if I wasn't really ready for the constructive feedback, then that's all I hear and it's like deafening. And it's like the positive thing, that little tiny thing that they started with because they sort of acknowledged the idea of a compliment sandwich, they tried to get something positive before they rushed into the all. Everything I could fix. 


00:25:28 Hannah 

I just don't even know. They see that. 


00:25:28 Kris 

Yeah, you're you're focused on the meat of the sandwich. You're not interested in the bread. 


00:25:32 Hannah 

Yeah, but I like I need the. 


00:25:34 Hannah 

Positive as well. 


00:25:36 Hannah 

And I think. 


00:25:36 Kris 

We all do as you're saying that I remembered that one of my strengths is ideation, which is in the strategy. 


00:25:42 Kris 

Magic Quadrant, interestingly enough, at which all my top five are in, by the way, I found that really. 


00:25:47 

Oh wow. 


00:25:48 Kris 

Interesting. I think there's strategic relational execution and influencing and I think lots of my influencing ones are near the bottom. I'm not cut out. 


00:26:01 Kris 

For the Insta lifestyle. 


00:26:04 Kris 

So ideas? 


00:26:06 Kris 

Well, at least according to string finders, are really important to me and I think I could be really stuck on being a wow person like that. That's my team. Almost like, wow, that's a great idea. Or be that person who comes to the table with a ridiculous idea that no one knows how they're going to do it. 


00:26:24 Kris 

And I think through purposeful training of seeking out people who I might not even normally want to work with or want to hear from as part of learning how to receive the other side of the feedback process that the critics like. It's it's about actually opening yourself. I've talked about it before. 


00:26:44 Kris 

Or like exposing yourself to new genres of music and ideas and reading and being comfortable enough to step outside of your comfort zone, which is a bit of a contradiction, but it makes us better when we can seek out those people who are actually going to test the ideas and and it takes us out of that that self preservation. 


00:27:05 Kris 

Right. But I think that's where we do our best growth. And I've said that before and I believe it. 


00:27:10 Hannah 

Umm yeah, I think if you I think if you can do that and prove to yourself, OK, I can operate in this space and and even enjoy it then yeah, that builds resiliency and comfort. You know there which then helps you to grow I think again yeah. I'm not always someone who's great. 


00:27:30 Hannah 

Throwing into the deep end with a bunch of people I don't know, and who maybe think really differently to me. But then, yeah, once you sort of have some experience in there, then you can start thriving and growing, I think. 


00:27:41 Kris 

But it's it. It's iterative though, like like I said, you don't have to become a new person overnight. You don't develop a skill overnight. 


00:27:48 Kris 

It you have to celebrate the little steps that get you there and being open to receiving different kinds of feedback isn't something that just happens overnight. Like you can develop that over a year or five years or a lifetime because I don't think we ever stopped growing and stop learning and developing. 


00:28:08 Hannah 

OK. So we've talked like quite a bit then about like constructive feedback, but you have said that you're someone who has learned to like you've grown and you've learned to accept positive feedback. 


00:28:21 Hannah 

So how did you do that? You know, like, what does and what does that look like for you? 


00:28:26 Kris 

So that's an interesting question because it's quite layered I think and it cuts deep to like the types of people who we are and the types of people that we're. 


00:28:34 Kris 

Becoming and I think. 


00:28:36 Kris 

I've gotten. I think I've changed a lot in the last couple of years. 


00:28:40 Kris 

And part of that is realizing that I can celebrate what I'm good at and actually acknowledge that as true. And what I mean by that is. 


00:28:49 Kris 

I know, for instance, that I'm a really good musician. 


00:28:53 Kris 

But how often do I compare myself or diminish myself to others because of my own insecurities? 


00:29:02 Kris 

Which aren't necessarily true like some can be, but most of the time when you know you're good at something, there's no reason to then doubt that, especially if people are affirming it, right? So people have told me I'm a good musician. I I know that. But it's that internal gremlin that comes out and it's like. 


00:29:23 Kris 

Ohh, but you're not as good as that. I think it's a little silly, so I've I've been learning to listen to that less because it's actually not true and that's actually helped me receive feedback. So my career professionally took a little bit of a like a detour, a little bit of left turn and tried something new and. 


00:29:43 Kris 

Some of those. 


00:29:45 Kris 

Thoughts have started to creep in or had started to creep in, like almost like imposter syndrome like ohh. 


00:29:51 Kris 

Who are you? 


00:29:53 Kris 

But I have been affirmed in the last couple of years that I'm doing a good job. 


00:29:58 Kris 

And so I don't think there should be any reason to doubt that, especially if others are giving me that positive feedback. And so I think that's been really helpful in me learning to accept when people are giving me positive feedback that they're not just lying to me. 


00:30:17 Kris 

Because some people will, some people are really uncomfortable with giving positive feedback, so they'll just tell you what they think you want to hear. 


00:30:25 Kris 

But most of the time when people tell you something, they genuinely mean it, especially if they've got a you've got a relationship with them, so that's been one thing that's been really helpful. 


00:30:33 Hannah 

For me. 


00:30:34 Hannah 

Yeah. So you in the past potentially, yeah, you were. You were not accepting, not receiving diminishing positive feedback because you didn't believe it. And really it was because of the lack of like belief in yourself that's really making me like, think back to an idea we started exploring in our previous episode. 


00:30:53 Hannah 

That, like developing our inner strength and obviously there's a lot of like experts for helping us. 


00:30:59 Hannah 

To do that. 


00:31:00 Hannah 

Now thinking around our mental health and resiliency, an idea of ours is that perhaps rhythms can also help us to do that. Rhythms of spending time with people who we love and who bring out like the magical parts of us. 


00:31:14 Hannah 

And spending time doing things that we love and things that help us to be grounded and bring us joy, but also just that being in rhythm and having rhythm. 


00:31:25 Hannah 

Our values and our priorities and we are going to become more resilient people just like when we do the Pilates, tells us to do, we strengthen our poor and we're not going to so much. 


00:31:44 Kris 

I feel like I feel like you're talking to your does your physio listen to the show? 


00:31:48 Hannah 

No, no, she doesn't. That I'm just trying to tell myself that I should be doing my. 


00:31:53 Kris 

Yeah, this this is like. 


00:31:55 Kris 

This is self self positive. 


00:31:58 Kris 

Feedback and affirmation. 


00:31:59 Hannah 

But no, I don't think I am again. I'm, like, really interested in people's feedback on this idea. But is that something that people may find to be true in their lives is when they have these rhythms, which are their values and priorities and practice that are helping shape who they will become because they think they just saw a quote from James Clare this week that says that we are becoming our habits. 


00:32:19 Hannah 

So when our rhythms are our priorities and values in in practice. 


00:32:23 Hannah 

We're becoming those people shaped by our priorities and our values, and what's important to us. I believe that that develops our core inner strength not, I'm not talking. 


00:32:31 Hannah 

Like you know, I'm talking mentally and emotionally there, and I think that puts us in that position. Like you have found yourself to be in that place. Where then you can accept positive feedback and believe what people say because you. 


00:32:43 Hannah 

Believe in yourself? That sounds cheesy, but you know. 


00:32:46 Kris 

What I mean, yeah, well, it's a bit of a circle because in order to believe in yourself, I think you need others to believe in you. And it just goes in a bit of a circle and each one feeds the other. So we can actually be a part of someone else's circle, I think, which is really. 


00:33:00 Kris 

Nice little picture that. 


00:33:02 Kris 

When we affirm someone or we give them really helpful, constructive feedback, it continues that loop for them, where it just makes them a little better. It improves them a little bit and then in. 


00:33:13 Kris 

Return they give. 


00:33:14 Kris 

That back to someone else, and it's just this. 


00:33:16 Kris 

Little feedback loop that makes everyone better. 


00:33:19 Hannah 

And I like that because I want to be able to, like, do the work for myself that I can do right. But also I want to be able to, like, support and help other. 


00:33:28 Hannah 

People so like I can do my. 


00:33:29 Hannah 

Work of like making me healthy and strong emotionally and mentally and also physically and everything. But I can also be part of supporting others to grow in that strength by giving positive feedback. 


00:33:41 Kris 

You know, would be interesting to do a poll on is who is a wow and who is a how. 


00:33:48 Hannah 

They would be interesting, OK. 


00:33:49 Kris 

It'll be. 


00:33:50 Kris 

To see what our audience, where they've sort of put themselves because. 


00:33:54 Kris 

I think even though we, I think we should be both, I am sure that we either fall mostly into one or mostly into another. 


00:34:02 Hannah 

Yes, yeah, I like that future. Hannah, take note to make that. 


00:34:05 Hannah 

The pause. 


00:34:06 Kris 

Well, can I just say you? 


00:34:07 Kris 

Do a great job. 


00:34:08 Kris 

With the the post production side of. 


00:34:11 Hannah 

Things. Thank you so much. And let me throw back to let me throw back to you though and say that I'm really trying to take on board your ideas as well about like how to be more like. 


00:34:21 Hannah 

Like catchy and Laurie, and have good hooks because you have such good ideas about like titles of things and how to draw people. And so I'm like, trying to think about the CEO stuff now that you've told me. 


00:34:34 Kris 

Ohh yeah, magic Yep. 


00:34:36 Kris 

So when I gave. 


00:34:37 Kris 

You that compliment. Like, did you get that? 


00:34:40 Kris 

Little nudge to. 


00:34:42 Kris 

Diminish it or did? 


00:34:43 Hannah 

I it. 


00:34:43 Kris 

You think I'll just fling it? Fling it back. 


00:34:45 Hannah 

Oh yeah, so how did I do? Because I felt like I tried to, like say thanks, but then I was like, ohh, OK, but I. 


00:34:53 Hannah 

Can kind of. 


00:34:54 Hannah 

Like I know where the root of. 


00:34:55 Hannah 

That comes from is. 


00:34:56 Hannah 

Actually from yourself. 


00:34:57 Hannah 

You know, but maybe that is diminishing it.