Episode 16: Traditions: Saving You and Your People Since Forever


At this time of year, many of us are looking forward to (or dreading?!) holidays and celebrations spent with our wonderful, opinionated, enthusiastic, annoying and kind loved ones - sounds great and like a lot! We need a tool that helps us to come together, to connect, be who we are as a community, and find that magic that comes from being in rhythm with one another. Enter traditions! Listen in as Kris and Hannah they unpack how traditions may just be what you and your people need to carry you through the upcoming crazy season!

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This transcript was generated automatically and may not be 100 percent accurate.

Episode transcript:

00:00:00 Hannah 

Welcome to The Rhythms podcast. My name is Hannah. 

00:00:03 Kris 

And my name's Kris, this is a podcast about exploring the rhythms, patterns and habits that bring joy and add richness to our everyday lives. 

00:00:12 Hannah 

From daily habits to embracing the changing seasons, it's not about mindless routines, but patterns with purpose. It's about making something special out of something. 

00:00:24 Kris 

If you're someone who wants to move beyond just being more efficient or productive and instead find ways to infuse your days with small, familiar moments that matter, then you've found two new friends with the same goal. 

00:00:37 Hannah 

Every episode listen in as we share a reflection on the role of rhythms in our. 

00:00:42 Hannah 

Lives join our conversation as we unpack this idea further and then spend a moment with us considering how that rhythm could shape or add richness to our lives today. 

00:00:56 Hannah 

This is episode 16. Traditions saving you and your people since forever. 

00:01:04 Hannah 

Well, it's finally arrived as I write this. I'm sitting in a vehicle with my family travelling to a country fair while listening to Christmas music. 

00:01:16 Hannah 

This is what? 

00:01:16 Hannah 

I've been waiting weeks. 

00:01:18 Hannah 

For my family's Christmas season opening ceremony, that's right. Like the Olympics. My family has an opening ceremony, but this one is to kick off the season we spend acknowledging, anticipating and celebrating Christmas. 

00:01:36 Hannah 

And this event truly is a tradition we all look forward to. 

00:01:41 Hannah 

Now, yes, that all sounds lovely. However, I promise we are still normal people, and the truth is that today almost didn't happen because of various family members being impacted by sickness, work stuff, house maintenance. But in the end, the drawer of this time doing something we love. 

00:02:01 Hannah 

Mostly hanging out together, but also visiting a spectacular country fair. Getting to purchase lovely things while nestled in the most beautiful gardens brought us. 

00:02:11 Hannah 

To where we are now. 

00:02:13 Hannah 

Coupling on this lovely late spring Saturday morning on our way to the Christmas season, a season that is sure to be rich with many other traditions and rituals. We just love them, I mean. 

00:02:29 Hannah 

When you live. 

00:02:29 Hannah 

With me, one of the Rhythms Podcast Co hosts. 

00:02:33 Hannah 

Seriously, how can you not? 

00:02:38 Hannah 

Consider your own memories, perhaps from the last couple of years. Or maybe you even want. 

00:02:44 Hannah 

To go back further. 

00:02:45 Hannah 

Maybe to your childhood. For most of us traditions make up some of those beloved memories we have with. 

00:02:53 Hannah 

Our loved ones. 

00:02:55 Hannah 

Perhaps it's a ritual around celebrating a birthday. 

00:02:59 Hannah 

Or an annual road trip. 

00:03:01 Hannah 

Or even a weekly family fish and chip movie. 

00:03:06 Hannah 

I'm not sure what it is for. You could be big or small, but most of us can hopefully bring to mind a memory or two of traditions we treasure. 

00:03:17 Hannah 

Maybe you can hear the road trip playlist or taste nanny's famous birthday cake now. Traditions, family and community rituals. They have an almost magical way of bringing people together. 

00:03:35 Hannah 

When you own the know with a particular tradition or ritual. 

00:03:40 Hannah 

The sense of belonging connection, even safety, is undeniable. These purposeful group patterns counter confusion, providing a shape. 

00:03:54 Hannah 

A steady and reliable framework. 

00:03:56 Hannah 

For the group to be together in an activity to anticipate and delight in together. 

00:04:05 Hannah 

Here on the Rhythms podcast, we like to think that our personal rhythms are our priorities and values and practise. 

00:04:15 Hannah 

Well, we wonder if perhaps traditions are like rhythms for groups of people. 

00:04:21 Hannah 

So surely our Community traditions must tell us about who our community is. 

00:04:28 Hannah 

Yes, but they don't. 

00:04:30 Hannah 

Only tell us who we were or. 

00:04:33 Hannah 

Are traditions including rituals, celebrations, ceremonies and other activities also helped to? 

00:04:41 Hannah 

Share and preserve our culture. Shared knowledge, beliefs, values, stories, and identity like we are being shaped by our personal habits and rhythms. So too, for communities and their practises, including those magical rituals and traditions. 

00:05:05 Hannah 

I think that when traditions are practised with affection over many years, they develop a kind of sacredness that is hard to find elsewhere. 

00:05:18 Hannah 

Even just the. 

00:05:18 Hannah 

Memory of them almost blows in your mind, spreading into your body when you recall them, perhaps as you share about them with a friend, or counting down the days until it's time. 

00:05:31 Hannah 

And I think that's because traditions can serve as a kind of hack or shortcut for people to get in rhythm with one another. They're a way to play or sing along to the same song. 

00:05:45 Hannah 

Metaphorically or not, I I don't know what your. 

00:05:47 Hannah 

Traditions of both. 

00:05:51 Hannah 

A life without rhythms can leave us unsteady and without a reliable source of everyday loveliness, a life as community without traditions. 

00:06:02 Hannah 

Can leave us a group of people without a clear direction on how to be together. 

00:06:08 Hannah 

And that's a little scary because people we. 

00:06:11 Hannah 

Can be a lot. 

00:06:15 Hannah 

So whether you're listening to this with Christmas, New Year's and the summer holidays fast approaching, or you're listening on a random day in February or June, you are sure to be opportunities for. 

00:06:28 Hannah 

Group rhythms, family and community traditions which can bring you. 

00:06:33 Hannah 

And your people together. Intentional, meaningful moments full of richness, reminding you who you are and what's. 

00:06:43 Hannah 

Important to you? 

00:06:45 Hannah 

Providing a reliable and sacred framework for you to anticipate, celebrate, acknowledge and or practise your values together, helping you to. 

00:06:59 Hannah 

Be who you. 

00:07:00 Hannah 

Are and become who you are as a community? 

00:07:08 Hannah 

I wonder what old traditions would you fight to cling on to? I wonder if your traditions are still serving you and your community, reflecting who you are and who you want to be in this season. 

00:07:26 Hannah 

Is there a space opportunity or a need for new traditions in the life of your family or community? Perhaps there are new people, new relationships and. 

00:07:38 Hannah 

Your life that could do with some of that richness and magic found in sharing a tradition hope. 

00:07:47 Hannah 

Is that you have do and will find your life, your family, your community, enriched by the magic of little and big rituals and traditions. 

00:08:10 Kris 

I'm going. 

00:08:10 Kris 

To tell you what my favourite holiday rhythm is. 

00:08:14 Hannah 

OK, tell me. 

00:08:15 Kris 

It it is being incredibly exhausted by the time of December, it's. 

00:08:23 Hannah 

Yes, I I think you find, UM, a community of people in that with you, Chris. Yep. 

00:08:31 Kris 

Can I can I start the Facebook page or if if it exists can I join? 

00:08:36 Kris 

It please. 

00:08:37 Kris 

Cause works December man. 

00:08:40 Hannah 

Yeah. You and I were just talking before we hit. 

00:08:42 Hannah 

Record just now about. 

00:08:43 Hannah 

Yeah. Like we're run down at this point. 

00:08:47 Kris 

We're feeling we are feeling like if you want real real, you know people, not AI generated podcast voices. 

00:08:56 Kris 

You got them. 

00:08:57 Kris 

I think we're safe to say we're pretty tight. 

00:09:00 Kris 

Has it been a big year for you? 

00:09:03 Hannah 

Yeah, it's been a really big year and it's just like, you know, we're all saying that's we all say this every year, but it remains true like just flowing like gone way too far, yeah. 

00:09:16 Hannah 

So I feel like I've been running all year. 

00:09:21 Kris 

Yeah, I feel that you know what I feel is that like. 

00:09:25 Kris 

Paradox, where everything's gone really fast but has also gone really slowly. Certain things have like taken a long time like our renos are still not done. Yes, I mean, we're almost there, but if that's like taken so long and has gone so slowly. 

00:09:39 Hannah 

Is true. 

00:09:46 Kris 

But yet the rest of the year around it, it's like this weird time warp paradox. Stephen Hawking. 

00:09:54 Kris 

Weird thing. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one who. 

00:09:58 Hannah 

Feels like that. No, definitely not definitely. So yeah, I think, yeah, I think there's just a bunch of. 

00:10:03 Hannah 

Us, but like weird, we. 

00:10:05 Hannah 

Need holidays? Not just like the seasonal holidays, which are like busy. 

00:10:10 Hannah 

And crazy, but we just. 

00:10:11 Hannah 

Need a break? 

00:10:12 Kris 

Well, for the next 40 or so minutes, how about you just take solace with us? 

00:10:18 Kris 

Join us as we revel in our tiredness. No, we're going to put on a great show. 

00:10:24 Kris 

For you. Aren't we Hannah? 


Yeah. Yeah, we. 

00:10:26 Hannah 

Always do our best and yeah, you. You mean you'll tell us if we if we're nailing it or not. Thank you. For those who do, send those lovely. 

00:10:27 Kris 

Of course. 

00:10:34 Hannah 

Comments. Great, great feedback. 

00:10:38 Kris 

So it's always good to get feedback. 

00:10:39 Hannah 

It is, it is, but yes. So it's December like we say. So it's the time when we're all exhausted and we're ready for a break at the same time, things are like ramping up and somehow we're squeezing more into our. 

00:10:51 Hannah 

As these different events as we are travelling or people are travelling to us to have these big celebrations, whether it's Christmas or New Years or maybe you've got the big extended family camping trip for the summer holidays, I don't know. But we have all of these traditions coming up and. 

00:11:11 Hannah 

That might be a word traditions that like, fills you with joy and maybe it fills you with dread. But I think what I'm sort of talking about. 

00:11:21 Hannah 

Here today is. 

00:11:22 Hannah 

Traditions done right and traditions practised with affection. 

00:11:27 Hannah 

And are critical for the communities, whether it's our family or community groups, whatever it is that we belong to. And so I don't know if that can sort of like help us look a little bit differently at this sort of last little section of the year going into the new Year. 

00:11:47 Hannah 

Hopefully, yeah, we can find some space for traditions that are life giving rather than draining because like we say, we all need a break. We. 

00:11:55 Hannah 

Some life given to. 

00:11:56 Kris 

Us Speaking of life draining this one funny holiday tradition that was like this meta little thing that everyone was aware of that happened every year at Christmas time. Everyone knew about it, and every year without fail, the memes would start about this particular thing. This year something. 

00:12:14 Kris 

Unique happened around this shared holiday rhythm. Millions. Millions of people. Can you? 

00:12:21 Kris 

Guess what it is. 

00:12:23 Hannah 

I don't know, Chris. Tell me. 

00:12:25 Kris 

She she put out a YouTube video about it. 

00:12:31 Hannah 

Is it about Mariah Carey? 

00:12:36 Kris 

I found that so funny that she I don't know if anyone hasn't seen it. Mariah Carey put out this YouTube video where it's like this big ice vault and it zooms in and she's, like, frozen in a block of ice. And there's ice elves like chip her out and or whatever, and then she's. 

00:12:54 Kris 

Like sings in her whistle tone. It's time. And then. 

00:12:59 Kris 

And on kicks, the bells and all I want for Christmas. 

00:13:04 Kris 

So good in the season, baby and and I just thought that's such a funny shared thing that everyone has. Or on the holidays, like everyone, you, you pick a side, you're the lover and you embrace it or you dread having to go into shops and hear it. You dread having to hear it on the radio just everywhere. All I want for Christmas. 

00:13:23 Kris 

Is you? 

00:13:23 Hannah 

I like do play the like. You know, Christmas hits playlists or whatever. If I'm a bit lazy on Spotify, you know, if I'm just like or I'm. 

00:13:30 Hannah 

In the car and. 

00:13:31 Hannah 

I'm like, oh, I don't have anything. 

00:13:32 Hannah 

Queued up and I ask her to play me Christmas music. 

00:13:35 Hannah 

That song is normally like number two or three on the list. 

00:13:40 Hannah 

Yeah, I normally skip it. What about you? 

00:13:44 Kris 

I I actually don't mind it. I it's such a well written song and it's so catchy. I think I can cope with the over saturation. 

00:13:54 Kris 

Given that it's once a year only, like I don't have to hear it throughout the year at all and everyone's gonna have their own Christmas jams, right, like everyone's own Christmas playlist. I I mean, what, what else is on yours? 

00:14:03 Hannah 

Yes, for sure. 

00:14:08 Hannah 

Well, I was going to say I think This is why I skip it because. 

00:14:10 Hannah 

There's so much Christmas music that I love that I'm, like, picky, right? Because I'm like, there's only this little window to listen to it all. And so, like, yeah, they make the most of this time. So I like it all. I like the classics like Andy Williams, Bing Crosby. I like all those old ones. I love Justin Bieber Christmas music. 

00:14:16 Kris 

Ohh yeah. 

00:14:30 Hannah 

I love like church Christmas carols, some acoustic stuff, some more, like high energy stuff. I I there's. 

00:14:39 Hannah 

Too much that. 

00:14:39 Hannah 

I love so I've gotten a bit picky really, but and this again is the. 

00:14:44 Hannah 

Like, do you want to invest in new Christmas music like she is just bought our new Christmas album? Or do I want to lean into like my traditions of listening to the stuff that I grew up on like? 

00:14:51 Kris 

If you really. 

00:14:55 Hannah 

High 5 Christmas. 

00:14:57 Kris 

55 will make you feel alright. No, that's not high. 

00:15:01 Kris 

Five is it? 

00:15:04 Hannah 

I don't know. 

00:15:06 Hannah 

What was my five? It was something about a house with. 

00:15:06 Kris 

What's that? 

00:15:08 Hannah 

High 5. 

00:15:08 Kris 


00:15:10 Kris 

3455 yeah. 

00:15:15 Hannah 

Drive in the air. Let's do it together. That song's not on it, but it's all Christmas music sung by the original high 5 members. 

00:15:16 Kris 

Is it on your rotation? 

00:15:25 Kris 

Well, you've got more Christmas recommendations than I could ever could think of. I I was just trying to think. Ohh my goodness. What Christmas music? 

00:15:33 Hannah 

Well, yeah. If you want something new, sheer new album. 

00:15:35 Kris 

Yeah, I'm. I'm ambivalent to Christmas music. I I don't love it. I don't hate it. I'll tell you what I really like. I love minor key Christmas carols. 

00:15:46 Hannah 


00:15:47 Kris 

So, like not the cheery, chirpy ones, but the like, sombre, Moody ones. 

00:15:53 Kris 

I think those are those are. 

00:15:55 Hannah 

Really cool. What's an example of that? 

00:15:57 Kris 

Like ohh, Holy Night, it's a good one. 

00:16:00 Hannah 

I was gonna say. Yeah. And your sister and sister-in-law. Yes, sister-in-law. Wow. She's got a stunning version of. 

00:16:01 Kris 

It's like it's like. 

00:16:07 Kris 

They bang it. 

00:16:08 Kris 

There's a banger version of it on Spotify. 

00:16:11 Hannah 

I'm Lucy. 

00:16:12 Kris 

By Lucy, she is gonna hate me for saying that, but. 

00:16:14 Hannah 

Ohh, we're definitely linking it in the shower. 

00:16:17 Kris 

Nuts and you can look it up. We'll we'll link it on our Spotify page as well. You know, we can recommend songs there on Spotify, on our podcast page. I'm so sorry, Lucy, but it does sound great. It really does. She's a beautiful. 

00:16:24 Hannah 

Oh, OK, cool. 

00:16:31 Hannah 

That's awesome. We we can. 

00:16:32 Hannah 

All now as rhythms, listeners add that into our traditions for Christmas is listening to. Yeah, Christmas is. 

00:16:39 Kris 

Speaking of our holy night, you know what's another shared rhythm that everyone does is whether your team Mariah or Team Celine. 

00:16:51 Kris 

For our holy night versions. OK, so Celine. 

00:16:55 Kris 

Classical arrangement. Powerful. Really. Like traditional style. Oh, holy night. Big, powerful vocals. Mm-hmm. Mariah Carey, more gospel style. More groovy. Bit funkier. 

00:17:09 Hannah 

Oh, OK. 

00:17:12 Kris 

A few more adlibs and like Mario's kind of signature style 2 camps. It's divisive. 

00:17:20 Hannah 

Ohh my gosh, I I'm sorry to say I haven't gone camping in either place yet, but now I'm going to have to go and listen to both versions. 

00:17:28 Kris 

I think so, I think so. 

00:17:29 Kris 

Yeah. So we've got some good stuff to pull the to, pull the listeners on today. 

00:17:34 Hannah 

You will ask. OK, I'm interested to find out who will bake. OK. Well, what, what are some of your other traditions that are gonna be coming up for you? So again, yeah. Not just only Christmas, but like, we've got New Year's. And there those are some of the ones that we both celebrate, but also with our summer holidays coming up, what does that look like? 

00:17:53 Hannah 

For you. 

00:17:55 Kris 

Well, before we recorded the show, we. 

00:17:57 Kris 

Had our second BBQ of the of the the seasons during the warm up and that's one that I really value. It's really nice. 

00:18:07 Kris 

Tradition in rhythm to get the BBQ out, get it warmed up. You know, cook over the cook over it and have chats and sit on the outdoor furniture. There's just something really nice and it's a bit of a combo breaker for the rest of the year when you're sitting inside and cooking in the kitchen. 

00:18:28 Kris 

And I think some of those rhythms are great when they just come in just at the right time to give you a little something different, a little twist at the end of the year. So like having dinner outside in the warm. 

00:18:39 Kris 

It's really nice and black BBQ food is really, really nice too, so that's one I'm really appreciating for this part of the and particularly in New Zealand where we are, you know, summer, summer time, holidays, there's lots of outdoor barbecues and. 

00:18:54 Kris 

Outdoor sports and, you know, going swimming and all. 

00:18:57 Kris 

Of that kind of thing. 

00:18:58 Hannah 

Yeah. And I think like you guys are good point now in bringing that example up, because our traditions can be like quite simple little things, right? Like this is just a different way of cooking dinner and maybe having different people join you. 

00:19:12 Hannah 

So traditions don't have to be this big crazy flashy thing like I bet. Like you've said, you look forward to that as much as maybe some of the bigger, flashier traditions. It's like, ohh. 

00:19:23 Hannah 

When can we have our first BBQ? 

00:19:24 Hannah 

Of the season. 

00:19:25 Kris 

I think even if it's considered little. 

00:19:29 Kris 

It's still equally important because it breaks up. 

00:19:35 Kris 

The year it breaks up, what could be monotonous and so rhythms are good in in some ways and that they give us continuity and steadiness. But you know, if you ate the same meal every day and didn't enjoy it, it would be torture. So I think those little moments are just as important as the really big. 

00:19:55 Kris 

Rhythms of big things. 

00:19:57 Hannah 

And like rhythms are not forever generally. Yeah, like they're not forever because of rhythm. And then what we're talking about here for groups, traditions, they are to help carry us and our seasons and our seasons of life change and our seasons of the year change. And so it totally makes sense that our rhythms and our traditions. 

00:20:19 Hannah 

Different at different times in our life. 

00:20:22 Hannah 

Because the whole point is that they help us, enjoy, appreciate, celebrate, acknowledge the season that we're in and carry us and hold us when we need that as well. 

00:20:32 Kris 

Umm, have you ever met someone who's perfectly comfortable having the same lunch every day? 

00:20:36 Hannah 

I mean not for their whole lives, just for in a season like at the moment I'm thinking of a friend. 

00:20:41 Hannah 

Who was a colleague for a while. 

00:20:43 Hannah 

And she was like, really working hard to save money. So she had, like, a particular sandwich every day, you know, because it was just a very, like, humble and expensive sandwich to make. And yeah, I'm like someone who loves rhythms and stuff. But yeah, even I would look and go seriously, like, you are committed. 

00:20:52 Kris 

Every day. 

00:21:03 Kris 

Same thing. 

00:21:04 Hannah 

And self controlled and disciplined because I've just gone back down to the kebab shop on Bergenfield. 

00:21:10 Kris 

Again, Yum Yum. Yeah, no, it's it's again. It's about what you value a. So rhythms are little signposts to what we value. And for your colleague it's saving the money in that season and a season also can sound long, but a season could be a week. Totally. 

00:21:29 Kris 

Could be could be a day, you know. Today I just need to change my rhythm. Like today. I just felt like, you know what? I'm just gonna eat whatever I feel like today. And so I did. And I I went a bit. I didn't go nuts. 

00:21:40 Hannah 

Good day. 

00:21:44 Kris 

But I did eat more. 

00:21:47 Kris 

Calories than I normally do. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, but I needed it. You know, I need it. Was that kind of day where I just had to give myself permission to just enjoy some food. 

00:21:59 Hannah 

Yeah, yeah, I like it. And I think again, like, that is kind of something I'm not meaning to, like, spoil your point there cause yeah, I think rhythm Breakers are good. 

00:22:07 Hannah 

But even that can even be part of a rhythm. Is this, like, that's what you're saying, right? Is that we can switch it up. And that's an important part of rhythm. Like, again, we've talked about albums here a few. 

00:22:17 Hannah 

Ones and an album isn't one. Generally, I think you're the musician music guru, but generally you don't have one album that's just like one rhythm, one song the whole way through, like we have pauses, and then there's something. 

00:22:31 Hannah 

Right. And with the different tracks of an album. And so we can like now going into this time of holidays, we've got to have some new rhythms. It's there's like I said, it's a time which is rich in tradition and rituals for many of us. 

00:22:47 Hannah 

And that might be some of the break that we need to get us out of the monotony. Not that like, you know, we think that our lives can. 

00:22:55 Hannah 

Have familiar loveliness in it and that not be monotonous, but there's still something and like even that, letting those have a little break and having something. 

00:23:06 Hannah 

New and different you. 

00:23:07 Hannah 

Like over the summer holidays, I'm probably not going to wake up and make my warm caramel latte every morning, which Oh my gosh, Chris, I've been sick. There's been this awful. I don't want to give too much too much info. 

00:23:21 Hannah 

But an awful time through. 

00:23:22 Hannah 

Our family and for like 2. 

00:23:24 Hannah 

Weeks. I couldn't drink coffee like. 

00:23:26 Hannah 

Just the thought of it. 

00:23:27 Hannah 

Was terrible. It happened to my mum and brother-in-law as well, like just none of us could stay. 

00:23:32 Hannah 

In coffee, and do you? 

00:23:34 Hannah 

Know what I missed making the coffee. 

00:23:37 Hannah 

Like it wasn't Even so much that I missed drinking it. 

00:23:40 Kris 

So yeah, I guess you. 

00:23:41 Kris 

Still could have made. 

00:23:42 Kris 

It though right? Or was it the smell? 

00:23:42 Hannah 

Like food especially, we had guests. I could have made it for our guests, but I probably will not do that over the summer. But I might make a cold coffee or have cereal with really cold milk or something, and I'll just have some other rhythms and traditions for this time. 

00:23:43 Kris 

It was putting your. 

00:24:02 Hannah 

Because the season that Lemon is different. 

00:24:03 Kris 

It's funny how sickness can change things up so quickly, eh? I I was sick as well a couple of weeks. No a week ago. And it just it knocks you out and. 

00:24:14 Kris 

It forces you to. 

00:24:15 Kris 

Inch your habits. 

00:24:18 Kris 

Like your, your coffee aversion like happened really quickly. I'm assuming you know, it's not like you had a week to go. OK, I'm eating out of coffee now, and you know it just happens. And you've got to deal with it, and you've got to figure out. Ohh man, my body is. 

00:24:33 Kris 

Not there. What can I do? Like you. You go into a whole. 

00:24:37 Kris 

New set of rhythms. 

00:24:38 Kris 

It's like switching your phone focus to rest mode instead of work mode you. 

00:24:43 Hannah 

Know thinking about traditions as like being our rhythms, but for groups of people. 

00:24:48 Hannah 

I guess it makes sense then that this time looks different because this time of year for so many of us is different because we're with our people more. You know, most of us are at work less during this time, and we're going around holidays with people or people are coming to stay with us or we're going on road trips or visiting or. 

00:25:08 Hannah 

Going to the New Year's Eve party or whatever it is, and so it makes sense that our traditions and rhythms look different because we're with different people more often. And yeah, what I'm like. 

00:25:21 Hannah 

Arguing, I guess, and that people have talked for a long, long time about is like we need traditions cause we're with our people and without a way that we all kind of understand to be together, it can that can be tricky, but a tradition is something that like gives like a shape to how we can be together. 

00:25:40 Kris 

Moment. So something like decorating the Christmas tree. 

00:25:44 Kris 

With the. 

00:25:45 Kris 

Could be a good example of. 

00:25:46 Hannah